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Traveller-digest     Monday, November 22 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1381<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
Re: Two things....<BR>
Imperial culture<BR>
re: Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)<BR>
Re: Traveller Music (was RE: Traveller-like fiction)<BR>
re: Two things....<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
GT: Imperial Navy in Playtest<BR>
Re: Traveller Planetary Assaults<BR>
Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
Re: Water as weapons (long)<BR>
Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
Re: dampers and reactors<BR>
Re: Two things....<BR>
Starship Operations Manual (or is it "Operator's"?  I forget)<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:34:38 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Chris Seamans" <BR>
> Just out of curiosity, how did we end up on the Marxist "peasant revolt"<BR>
> line? It doesn't have to be "peasants" or "proles" who are doing the bulk<BR>
of<BR>
> the revolting at all. In fact, in cases like the American of French<BR>
> Revolutions the peasants weren't even the real driving force behind the<BR>
> rebellion.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not quite familiar enough to deal with the American revolution, so I<BR>
will just deal with the French case.<BR>
<BR>
Basically, the peasants provided the bulk of the force behind the<BR>
revolution, along with the urban masses, the sans-culottes.  This is for<BR>
the good and simple reason that the peasants were the _overwhelming_<BR>
majority of the French population.<BR>
<BR>
"Elite" revolts that face opposition need mass support, or they will fail.<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, religious disputes, historically, have been among the least<BR>
> "dirty" wars, depending on how you look at it. This may simply be an<BR>
> accident of history, since the same force that allowed mankind to make<BR>
> really impressive weapons also happened to marginalize those religious<BR>
> institutions that would be able to make war to a great degree.<BR>
> <BR>
> However, if you were to add up the death toll of only two of the<BR>
ideological<BR>
> and nationalist wars of the twentieth century (World War I and World War<BR>
II)<BR>
> you're gonna find that the dirtiest wars weren't fought over religion at<BR>
> all.<BR>
<BR>
You don't, of course, get wars that are fought for just one reason.  But<BR>
still:<BR>
<BR>
Enter the Taiping Rebellion!   <BR>
<BR>
The second bloodiest war in human history was fought in China between 1851<BR>
and 1864.  The body count has been estimated at around 30 million or so. <BR>
The Taipings' central leader considered himself the younger brother of<BR>
Jesus.  <BR>
<BR>
Yes, there was a lot more to it than "just" religion, but that's true of<BR>
every "religious" war.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:41:26 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
<BR>
> From: Simon Early <BR>
> > 1.  Riots are rarely organized.<BR>
> <BR>
> I would strongly dispute this in the UK.  Most of the riots of recent<BR>
history <BR>
....<BR>
> > 4.  From what I've seen, well organised demonstrations (or "riots", if<BR>
you<BR>
> > are on the side of the oppressive government)<BR>
> <BR>
> I would dispute that Her Majesty's Government are oppressive.<BR>
....<BR>
<BR>
Look, there's just no way I'm going to touch this stuff.  Let's declare it<BR>
a Red Zone and not go there.  Too much flame fodder.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:09:16 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:58:45 -0500<BR>
"Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, that's great. Last I noticed, within the Imperium there are no feuding<BR>
>superpowers. There can be no Cold War style situation in the Third<BR>
>Imperium... well, there can be, but at that point you begin to get further<BR>
>and further away from the canon view of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Yes & no. There are some feuding GTL6 superpowers on Singer (0940 District 268)<BR>
in the Spinward Marches. Strictly speaking, though, they're not part of the<BR>
Imperium. They are an independant system, as are most of those in the district.<BR>
However, they ARE looked after by the Imperium and will eventual join the<BR>
empire.<BR>
<BR>
Singer is THE place to go if you want to play in the RW(tm) circa 1960's.<BR>
The government is, like, 28 countries with various alliances, all fighting.<BR>
One of them just took over a major land mass in the northern hemisphere.<BR>
Just think of it as post WWII with the serial numbers filed off.<BR>
PC's can try out their "I could rule the world if only..." scenarios.<BR>
Speaking of which... any chance we could go there David? (GM Hint).<BR>
<BR>
(Interestingly, Singer only became amber zoned and at war in GURPS.<BR>
Prior to that it was more nondescript. I guess someone changed it<BR>
into a more interesting playground to base adventures in.)<BR>
<BR>
Graeme Batho<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
If at first you don't succeed, DON'T try Russian Roulette.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:30:58 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:47 PM 11/21/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>>So anybody over TL 5 or 6 (too lazy to check the books :-) can<BR>
build a<BR>
>>>nuke. It's no more "restricted" a technology than gunpowder and<BR>
other<BR>
>>>explosives.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Give me the materials and I can make you one.  Very simple to<BR>
build and<BR>
>> understand if you can at least think.<BR>
><BR>
>"Build Your Own Atomic Bomb and *Really* Wake Up the Neighborhood"<BR>
(or<BR>
>something like that) was the title of an article printed in the 70s<BR>
in<BR>
>Analog. It details how to build a *really* crude nuke. Really dirty<BR>
>too. <BR>
><BR>
>And yes, they left out details. Ones that might get you killed. But<BR>
the<BR>
>damn thing *would* work.<BR>
><BR>
>Basicly, all you need are the fissionables, a 2-story house with<BR>
>basement, and some fairly common tools and construction materials.<BR>
You<BR>
>*don't* need any explosives!<BR>
<BR>
	I thought they used a powder charge atop the upper hemisphere to<BR>
give it a boost down the pipe? (It's been a while, and if the water<BR>
damage hasn't ruined it it's still packed away).<BR>
<BR>
- -- Chaos reigns within. <BR>
      Reflect, repent, and reboot.<BR>
   Order shall return.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:38:32 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Two things....<BR>
<BR>
At 05:23 PM 11/22/99 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>2) does anyone know what the legal position is on<BR>
photocopying/scanning<BR>
>out of print works?  I've tried in vain to get hold of Books 7 & 8<BR>
for<BR>
>CT, and am out of ideas.  Obviously I don't want to violate any<BR>
>copyright laws in getting hold of copies, so unless anyone has<BR>
spares<BR>
>they want to part with.....<BR>
<BR>
	This is rather old, so you might want to formally touch base with<BR>
Marc Miller to make sure it still holds. Barring any massive abuse of<BR>
it, Marc strikes me as one of those rare rational people ...<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:18:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Trade or Sell<BR>
><BR>
>Once upon a time, when D&D was still new, just about everyone at GDW<BR>
made<BR>
>aphotocopy of the basic D&D books because they were not yet<BR>
available in<BR>
>evnough volume for everyone to have their own copy.<BR>
><BR>
>Once the sets became available, we all went out and bought them and<BR>
discarded<BR>
>the photocopies... which were just inferior.<BR>
><BR>
>If someone makes a photocopy for his or her own use, that is called<BR>
fair use,<BR>
>as long as it's not the whole product, and as long as its not for<BR>
resale.<BR>
>That includes copying someone else's copy of the product.<BR>
><BR>
>That is especially true if the product itself is not currently<BR>
available (ie<BR>
>CT or Mt, probably not for T4).<BR>
><BR>
>When someone starts photocopying multtiple copies for others, then<BR>
it gets to<BR>
>be infringement.<BR>
><BR>
>Personally, if you want a specific work which isn't in print and you<BR>
can get<BR>
>a photocopy, I think that's OK.<BR>
><BR>
>Marc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- Chaos reigns within. <BR>
      Reflect, repent, and reboot.<BR>
   Order shall return.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:43:10 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Imperial culture<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Robert Eaglestone wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Who says Imperial culture is Western?<BR>
> <BR>
I would expect Imperial culture in any given TU to reflect the culture<BR>
or cultures that the referee comes from, modified by what historical<BR>
reading the ref has done and what sort of SF the ref likes to read.<BR>
This isn't particularly logical but it makes for better gaming.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:35:10 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Vargr (Was: Re: Weapons of mass destruction)<BR>
<BR>
At 21:34 -0500 21/11/99, Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:<BR>
>Is there perhaps a web source of basic information about the different<BR>
>races, perhaps with a general timeline thrown in? Is there good (better<BR>
>than in T4) examples of such material in GURPS: Traveller (the main<BR>
>book, which I don't have)?<BR>
<BR>
The BITS book 'SpaceDogs' has notes on playing Vargr;<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:41:44 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Music (was RE: Traveller-like fiction)<BR>
<BR>
At 3:11 -0500 22/11/99, "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:<BR>
> > > I really think that, once a list is created, we should add it to<BR>
> > > the FAQ, along with the suggested Travelleresque reading.  But<BR>
> > > that's my opinion.  YMMV.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > What we really need is a TML Knowledge Base, the few  times  I've<BR>
> > tried to use the archives in the past I've  found  it  difficult.<BR>
> > Anyone want to set one up?<BR>
><BR>
>Love to, but I don't have a permanent connection to the internet.<BR>
>I'd suggest BITS or downport would be the appropriate locatons<BR>
<BR>
If someone builds it, we'll host it...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:51:39 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Two things....<BR>
<BR>
At 12:27 -0500 22/11/99, iSteve <iSteve@outhere.f9.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>2) does anyone know what the legal position is on photocopying/scanning<BR>
>out of print works?  I've tried in vain to get hold of Books 7 & 8 for<BR>
>CT, and am out of ideas.  Obviously I don't want to violate any<BR>
>copyright laws in getting hold of copies, so unless anyone has spares<BR>
>they want to part with.....<BR>
<BR>
Generally okay, but Marc Miller is about to reprint Books 7 & 8 in a <BR>
new volume.<BR>
<BR>
Go to BITS website http://www.bits.org.uk/ and go to the jumpsite page.<BR>
<BR>
1) Look at Hyphen's pages (Beowulf Down or Tavonni Down) as this has <BR>
a lot of background library data and also copies of Marcs comments.<BR>
<BR>
2) Look at Downport.com as this has a lot of material and may include <BR>
the copyright statement. You can get to Freelance Traveller from here <BR>
too.<BR>
<BR>
3) Look at Marc Miller's site - FarFuture Enterprises - for details <BR>
on the reprints and possibly photocopying.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:45:13 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
At 12:27 -0500 22/11/99, Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com> wrote:<BR>
>His follow on to GURPS: Starmercs<BR>
><BR>
>IIRC, Orginially to be called GURPS: Imperial Armies.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't know what the current name is, probably something like:<BR>
><BR>
>	"GURPS: Imperial Penguin Throwers"<BR>
><BR>
>Anyway, buy it!<BR>
<BR>
Absolutely.<BR>
<BR>
And also by 'At Close Quarters' also written by Doug and to be <BR>
published by BITS in the immediate future. This is a set of rules for <BR>
running more detailed combat built around the task system *and* <BR>
penguins.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:14:15 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
At 07:33 PM 11/20/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> This is just the way I see things not holy writ or anything. But it fits my<BR>
>> conception of the 3I (and must other empires/kingdoms/nations I've<BR>
>> experienced.)<BR>
><BR>
>I'm surprised the Imperium doesn't utilize mass-driver technology on<BR>
>warships when they need to do pin-point bombardment. It CAN be done, the<BR>
>physics prove this. Besides, you don't have to mess with that nasty Pu<BR>
(plutonium).<BR>
><BR>
>Just ask the Narns.<BR>
>--<BR>
>Josh<BR>
<BR>
        Hi, Josh...  I'm sorry, a "rock" is not a "pin-point" weapon any<BR>
more than the Hiroshima bomb was.  When you start generating yields in the<BR>
hundreds of tons range for HE, that isn't pin-point.  In _Cyberpunk 2020_,<BR>
there is a set of source books where two major corporations are using<BR>
Ortillery strikes on each other's skyscrapers...  the dropped round is about<BR>
the size and shape of a crowbar...  its worth a few tons of HE on impact....<BR>
enough to collapse a sky-scraper in on itself and that's about it.  That's<BR>
about as pin-point as you can get, and its still going to not be as<BR>
effective as any competant air-defense grid....<BR>
        Besides, the its just lucky for the Centarii that the Narns didn't<BR>
have c-sec ranged thermonuclear silos on the planet, or that rock-dropping<BR>
excercise would have been a *heck* of a lot less lop-sided.  Rock-dropping,<BR>
or any other form of orbital bombardment is *very* reliant on your target<BR>
being helpless...        <BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
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	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:33:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: GT: Imperial Navy in Playtest<BR>
<BR>
I haven't seen anyone else post this to the list:<BR>
<BR>
According to the SJG _Daily Illuminator_ of 20 Nov 99, GT: Imperial Navy<BR>
has entered playtest.  Naturally, only _Pyramid_ susbscribers may<BR>
participate.  (If you aren't a subscriber, why not?  It's $15 well<BR>
spent.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:41:29 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Planetary Assaults<BR>
<BR>
At 09:58 AM 11/22/99 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
>Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org> wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>Way bother grabbing the starport at all? If commercial starships can land<BR>
>>at a type X starport (AKA a big empty field) than a combat lander should be<BR>
>>able to. <BR>
><BR>
>If the Imerium is doing its job right, the starport is the ecconomic centre<BR>
>of the planet. It also contains the mercantile interests that you have come<BR>
>to "protect". <BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Which is why you don't want to launch an all out planetary assault on it.<BR>
You want the starport intact for after the war, so you pull the defending<BR>
forces away from the port before engaging them. Now, you can can do what<BR>
the Russians did in Afganistan and grab the starport before anyone knows<BR>
you're coming, that's a different story.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Phil Kitching<BR>
>--<BR>
>  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
>  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
> "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:56:46 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
<BR>
At 09:54 AM 11/22/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>>	Interesting idea, but I wonder about the cost of a Death<BR>
>>	Star.<BR>
><BR>
>According to published Star Wars sources its a sphere about 120 km in<BR>
>diameter, thus it has a displacement of 6.463 x 10^14 dtons. The second DS<BR>
>is supposed to be larger.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I thought it was the second Death Star that was 120 km? IIRC, someone<BR>
worked it out using the amount that the hull curved in relation to the<BR>
length of the command ship that crashed into the DS in ROTJ.<BR>
<BR>
Either way, the novelization of ROTJ said that the second DS was twice the<BR>
size of the original. Of course, it doesn't say if that size is being<BR>
measured in diameter or volume. <BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:28:45 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
At 01:49 AM 11/21/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
        [snip]<BR>
>>The Vargr don't count because they are a bunch of more or less<BR>
>>disorganized groups. If one of the groups attacked any of the "big<BR>
>>powers" and violated the "laws", they'd get clobbered but good,<BR>
>>especially since many *other* vargr groups would likely join in on the<BR>
>>winning side.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>That would precisely be the reason that they'd be so likely to use them<BR>
>though. Hauling big rocks into orbit and smiting cities would be just the<BR>
>kind of thing that Vargr raiding bands might do to extort cash from the<BR>
>planetary government. It would be even more attractive because they probably<BR>
>wouldn't have a Navy or Army to speak of.<BR>
><BR>
>Terror weapons would be most believable in the hands of Vargr (and the<BR>
>Imperium for handling internal troubles, but I digress).<BR>
><BR>
        I would disagree with your assessment.  The Vargr are driven by a<BR>
requirement to boost thier own standing with other Vargr (thier Charisma).<BR>
*Any* idiot pink-stink can drop a rock on a world and say "Gimme money or<BR>
I'll do it again"....  that isn't going to do *anything* for one's<BR>
Charisma...  no bravery, no bold action, no fears faced nose-on....  <BR>
        A planetary assault or a boarding of a high-port on a snatch and<BR>
grab, or a pack raiding an Imperial  convoy... now, that is a *whole*<BR>
different matter.  For Charisma to work, its *gotta* be up-close and<BR>
personal, and your friends have to survive to be impressed and brag you up<BR>
to thier friends.  That is why the Vargr seem so fragmented into such<BR>
dynamically composed groups;  individual quests for Charisma will conflict<BR>
in direction.<BR>
        Dropping a rock just says you can use a computer to do math.  Going<BR>
there, walking into the command post and announcing its "Tax Time" is a<BR>
whole different flair!<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:35:27 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
<BR>
At 01:37 PM 11/21/99 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>Hehe... if we (stupid humans) learned from history, that is, we would<BR>
>have come to the same conclusion. I do not have the exact wording for<BR>
>this quote, but one of the Wright brothers said (about the flying<BR>
>machine) that this machine will make further wars impossible, since the<BR>
>potential for destruction is so great.<BR>
><BR>
>Sadly enough, it had been said before. A pope (don't know which, have to<BR>
>find my quotations collection) once said (not an exact quote either)<BR>
>about a new weapon that it was too accurate, silent, quick, and deadly<BR>
>to allow for any more wars. That weapon was the crossbow...<BR>
<BR>
        Dr.Gatling figured the same thing...  it was his *intention* to<BR>
build a weapon so fearsome no one would use it again....<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: Seeing things in this light, I find it rather improbable that<BR>
>nukes aren't used by most cultures in Traveller. IMTU, the Imperium (and<BR>
>thus their client states) have laws forbidding them, but many other<BR>
>cultures use them. The below notes are further information about nuclear<BR>
>weapons IMTU.<BR>
><BR>
>The Vargr haven't got the knowledge, <BR>
<BR>
        Sorry, they can build power-plants, so they can build H-Bombs....<BR>
<BR>
and the Zhodani won't give it to<BR>
>them (the Zho's have got the Bomb, but they are afraid of an escalating<BR>
>war). <BR>
<BR>
        I could argue the Zho don't require nukes for screwing up a surface<BR>
target....<BR>
<BR>
>The Darrians have no problems whatsoever with using nukes if they<BR>
>need to, and they have bombed several of the Sword Worlds. The Sword<BR>
>Worlder's have done the same to the Darrians... This is exactly the type<BR>
>of conflict (with the Imperium) that the Zhodani are afraid of.<BR>
<BR>
        I'd say the average Vargr isn't thrilled with this scenario<BR>
either....  hard to party when the place is bathed in a U232 glow....  <BR>
<BR>
>The K'Kree gladly nuke "bad" worlds, but won't destroy inhabitable (to<BR>
>them) worlds that way. Aslan follow the Imperial way of thinking, but<BR>
>some clans just *might* have an ace or two up their sleeve.<BR>
<BR>
        I'd say this is right on...  "Don't push us, or we'll prove to you<BR>
wether or not we have nuclear weapons...."<BR>
<BR>
>I haven't considered Droyne or Hiver's, since I don't have any material<BR>
>on these races yet (I'm waiting for GT: Alien Races 3).<BR>
><BR>
>/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
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			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
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<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:26:09 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Water as weapons (long)<BR>
<BR>
>And history shows that sooner or later, a government that resorts to leathal<BR>
>force against its own will fall.<BR>
><BR>
>Darryl<BR>
<BR>
I think that history shows that any government will fall, sooner or later.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:35:38 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
>I certainly agree that really nasty warfare (salting fields, genocide,<BR>
>nucs, rocks, etc.) requires de-humanization of one's enenmy. And I'd agree<BR>
>that the Crusades were a fine example of this.  But I'd question whether<BR>
>the Crusades were the first example.  What about Carthage, for example?<BR>
<BR>
Predating that, read the section in the Old Testament (Torah) where their<BR>
Israelites settle the Holy Land. If a town dares defy them, they are<BR>
instructed to wipe out everyone, men, women, and children.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:41:32 -0600<BR>
From: Robert Daniel <bdaniel@T-Three.com><BR>
Subject: Re: dampers and reactors<BR>
<BR>
What is the Star ships Operations guide and where do I get a copy?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > In the Starship Operators guide it did say that fusion reactors had a<BR>
> > deuterium tank which was used for crash starting the reactor. Could not the<BR>
> > fuel purification system include items to seperate deuterium and possibly<BR>
> > tritium to help initiate the fusion reaction?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:49:06 -0500<BR>
From: "C Michael" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Two things....<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
> No need to go copy them, Marc is reprinting 'em.<BR>
> HTTP://members.aol.com/Traveller/T401-00.html<BR>
><BR>
> Book 0-8 reprinted in one volume, at $20, a very good deal!<BR>
<BR>
That's $28, plus shipping to UK at about $10....  still a bargain, though,<BR>
since the originals go on eBay at about 25-30 each.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
   The Traveller Domain<BR>
http://www.downport.com<BR>
 Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:06:13 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Starship Operations Manual (or is it "Operator's"?  I forget)<BR>
<BR>
Robert Daniel wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> What is the Star ships Operations guide and where do I get a copy?<BR>
<BR>
The _Starship Operations Manual_ (SOM) was written for MegaTraveller as<BR>
a fairly comprehensive description of how things work on a starship.  It<BR>
was published by Digest Group Publications (DGP), not GDW (the<BR>
importance of this becomes clear in the next paragraph).<BR>
<BR>
To get a copy, you need to find someone willing to part with a used<BR>
copy, since SOM has been out of print for about ten years, and the<BR>
current copyright holder of DGP materials is not as understanding as<BR>
Marc Miller concerning photocopying out-of-print material for<BR>
Traveller.  (If you read the TML for a while, you'll find that most<BR>
people express their opinion of Roger Sanger <spit> more pungently than<BR>
I have.)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 21:01:17 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>        I would disagree with your assessment.  The Vargr are driven by a<BR>
>requirement to boost thier own standing with other Vargr (thier Charisma).<BR>
>*Any* idiot pink-stink can drop a rock on a world and say "Gimme money or<BR>
>I'll do it again"....  that isn't going to do *anything* for one's<BR>
>Charisma...  no bravery, no bold action, no fears faced nose-on....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
By the same token though, any idiot pink-stink can, say, point a gun, or do<BR>
whatever might be required in their raiding operations. I didn't know that<BR>
*specific* sorts of "heroic" actions were required for Vargr Charisma.<BR>
<BR>
Besides,  I thought that the Aslan were supposed to be the honorable ones.<BR>
<BR>
>        A planetary assault or a boarding of a high-port on a snatch and<BR>
>grab, or a pack raiding an Imperial  convoy... now, that is a *whole*<BR>
>different matter.  For Charisma to work, its *gotta* be up-close and<BR>
>personal, and your friends have to survive to be impressed and brag you up<BR>
>to thier friends.  That is why the Vargr seem so fragmented into such<BR>
>dynamically composed groups;  individual quests for Charisma will conflict<BR>
>in direction.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Again, I'm not sure I've come away from Traveller sources with the same idea<BR>
of Vargr that you have. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that they're drooling<BR>
evil nasties just waiting to drop rocks on any planet that they get the<BR>
chance to drop rocks on, which has been one of the dangers I've become quite<BR>
conscious of over the course of this discussion.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, a big part of my understanding of Vargr comes from my research<BR>
into the Sioux and the lower echelons of the New York mafia of the 70s (via<BR>
the book Donnie Brasco).<BR>
<BR>
>        Dropping a rock just says you can use a computer to do math.  Going<BR>
>there, walking into the command post and announcing its "Tax Time" is a<BR>
>whole different flair!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I agree, and I personally would follow the "tax time" guy myself ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1381<BR>
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